We hired PR firms and we had people tell us to say nothing. • Founders Brewing Manager Claims He Didn’t Know Black Employee Is Black [MT]• Founders Brewing Co. This goes back to the principles of Founders. Evans alleges that in 2018, he was eventually terminated for filing a complaint with human resources. Founders looks forward to its day in court, and, now that discovery has closed, it is more confident than ever that it will prevail. We’ll keep the record as is. This Material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed in any form. newsletter. Yes. We feel like we as a company, our job is to continue to move forward and to celebrate people of all different backgrounds. In the leaked deposition from the Detroit Metro Times, Evans' Attorney, Jack Schulz, asked Founders' Manager Dominic Ryan, "Are you aware Tracy is African American?" So by your … I guess your testimony is you have no idea if Tracy is a minority, if he’s African-American? There were instances that Founders acknowledges that there were fellow employees of his that used the “N” word in his presence, and at least one of those employees is still hired by the company. “Going through an experience such as racism is nothing new to people of color,” Evans said. The fact that Mr. Evans is selectively leaking this type of information to you indicates that, unlike Founders, he has no evidence to support his position in this case. Michigan’s largest brewery is facing renewed backlash after new details emerged in a racial discrimination lawsuit. Vague question. Of course we know Tracy Evans is black. Schulz: And what is the difference of that color? Evans says that he plans to start building funding for that project soon and invites people who need help to email the organization at itsnotrightmovement@gmail.com. The deposition between Founders’ general manager Dominic Ryan and Evans’ attorney contains a frustratingly ridiculous exchange where Ryan asserts that he was unaware that Evans was black. On Friday, Tracy Evans — the former promotions and events manager at Founders’ Detroit taproom — joined CultureShift to talk about his experiences at the brewery and what motivated him to file a lawsuit. It’s not necessarily a zero tolerance policy, because the one employee is still there. On Monday, Metro Times published a transcript from a … Taproom (616) 776-1195 Taproom Hours. What Are Michigan’s COVID-19 Rules for Restaurants and Bars Right Now? That’s never been our stance as a company. In preparation for a possible jury trial, Schulz deposed three Founders managers, including Ryan, on Sept. 25 of this year. Ryan: That’s not … I mean, is his skin different from mine? By choosing I Accept, you consent to our use of cookies and other tracking technologies. First, as I doubt you’re aware, Mr. Evans himself has testified – unequivocally and under oath – that Mr. Ryan is not racist and was his friend; so whatever point Mr. Evans is trying to make by leaking deposition testimony to you is undone by his own words. That’s a … that’s a genuine question. Schulz: What do you mean lineage, from Africa? Evans is African-American. Hear Tracy Evans, fired Founders employee alleging racial discrimination, explain the motivations behind his lawsuit. from the lawsuit, which raised a lot of eyebrows. “People of color and women who are put in these positions, you very rarely want to speak out because you always feel like you are going against the grain, and you always feel like you will be singled out, and you always feel like your job is at risk, your reputation is at risk,” he says. What about Kwame Kilpatrick? He was under oath when he made these statements. Argumentative. Employee Files Lawsuit Alleging Racial Discrimination [ED]• All Beer Coverage [ED]• All Lawsuits Coverage [ED]• All Founders Coverage [ED], Founders Manager Claims in Discrimination Lawsuit Deposition He Didn’t Know Employee He Fired Was Black, Sign up for the Of course we know Tracy Evans is black. WDET is a community service of Wayne State University. No, Tracy worked on our packaging line and worked his way up to become a lead packager. Founders Brewing Company in Detroit. Patrick M. EdsengaAttorney at LawMiller Johnson, Now a year into the lawsuit, Evans tells Eater in an interview that he wishes that Founders had simply acknowledged the problem, apologized, and created a path towards improving the brewery’s work culture. Schulz: I mean have you ever looked at Tracy Evans in your entire life? Schulz: I mean, we could … This could be a one-sentence answer, you know. Dave Engbers, Founders’ owner: I can’t imagine what was going through his head. Here’s the latest updates. ... Dominic Ryan didn’t have to pretend he was colorblind in order to make us believe that he wasn’t a … In the deposition, general manager Dominic Ryan — who said he had known Evans for years, before he started working at Founders — was questioned by Evans’ attorney, Jack Schulz. At the company, we felt it best… we’ve relieved Dominic of all of his responsibilities as it pertains to the Detroit taproom. We put him on a program to get some coaching, to get some additional training. Ryan: I’m not sure of his lineage so I can’t answer that. “We go through these things all the time. Ryan: What do you mean “how”? The, ‘I don’t see color,’” he says. Do you think it would’ve been easier to issue an apology and admit that there is possibly some wrongdoing, some of which Founders’ does acknowledge had happened in the workplace? Ryan Patrick Hooper is the host and producer of CultureShift. We are working to really hone our policy down. Ryan’s exchange with Evans’ attorney Jack Schulz involves a series of questions regarding race, in which Ryan avoids using the word “black.” When Schulz asked whether Ryan knows if Barack Obama, Kwame Kilpatrick, or Michael Jordan are black, Ryan responds to each question by stating he’s never met them. View Dominic Ryan’s profile on LinkedIn, the world’s largest professional community. Schulz: OK, are you aware Tracy is Black? We absolutely abhor, we do not tolerate any racism at Founders. He admits the company erred in its initial public silence and underestimated the blowback the suit would cause. The author chose not to include our full statement and, as a result, we are opting to share it with you. And we used this as a learning opportunity for that employee. His feature reporting received a 2020 Regional Murrow award. Meanwhile, Dominic Ryan, the manager at the center of the leaked deposition, is still employed by Founders, Engbers said, though he was "removed from his duties" at … Dianna Stampfler, a publicist for the Michigan Brewers Guild, responded to requests by Eater for comment in an email on Wednesday, stating: “Occasionally we have brewery members drop out of a festival, and while that is unfortunate, the celebration this weekend will be about all the great Michigan breweries and beers that are present.”, Evans says that while consumers and fellow brewers are free to take whatever action they feel is necessary, he isn’t calling for the cancelation of Founders. Detroit's NPR Station. Facing Backlash for Deposition in Racial Discrimination Case, Tracking the Fallout From Founders Brewing Company’s Racial Discrimination Lawsuit, Founders Brewing to Reopen Detroit Taproom Following Lawsuit Controversy, Detroit Taco Pop-Up Plans New Outpost in the West Side Industrial Neighborhood, Tracking COVID-19 Outbreaks in Michigan’s Food Industry, Detroit Restaurant Saffron De Twah Is Offering Free Holiday Meals to People in Need, Michigan Extends Indoor Dining Closure Through January 15. According to the filing, Evans also claims he was passed over for promotions, despite having greater seniority and a better record of conduct than the two Caucasian employees who were ultimately hired. Please see below for a full statement regarding the recent Detroit Metro Times article provided by our legal counsel. Employee Files Lawsuit Alleging Racial Discrimination, Founders Brewing Manager Claims He Didn’t Know Black Employee Is Black, Founders Brewing Co. Evans was allegedly fired while prepping a second formal complaint to human resources. It’s very well-documented that the only reason that Tracy Evans lost his job was due to performance, it had nothing to do with his race,” Engbers says. Founders President Dave Engbers says the taproom, on Charlotte Street off Cass Avenue, will remain closed Friday until at least Tuesday due to what he calls a "tense situation." Founders Brewing Co posted a statement to their website on Friday stating that their Detroit taproom would be closed 'until further notice.' Evans tells Eater by phone on Tuesday that he sees Ryan’s statement in the deposition is a symptom of a larger issue in conversations about race. Engbers also addressed some of the particular allegations in the suit including that employees had used the “N” word around Evans. “You will never hear those words, as far as ‘boycott Founders,’ ever come out of my mouth.”. The brewery faced backlash when in a leaked deposition Founders' general manager Dominic Ryan said he could not definitively say whether Evans is … “This isn’t just about Founders. All Rights Reserved. “I by no means want the friends that I love and still hold dear to my heart, that continue to work at Founders, to not be able to afford to pay their mortgage or pay for their child’s braces or sports equipment or not make a living. This motion will include documentary proof that neither Mr. Evans’ race nor retaliation played any part in Founders’ decision to end Mr. Evans’ employment. From a deposition given last year by Dominic Ryan, the general manager of Founders Brewing Company, to Jack Schulz, a lawyer for Tracy Evans. That was … I can’t speculate on what Dominic was thinking. “We’ve never gone through anything like this in our 22-year history.”. >>Online: Full statement from Founders The annual Michigan … Are you aware that Tracy is a man of color? In it, Founders general manager Dominic Ryan said he didn't know the employee suing him is black. It was probably smart on the part of Founders Brewing Co. to quickly settle with former black employee Tracy Evans after an explosive deposition in a … This is about a worldly issue that continues to happen all the time.”, The deposition have ignited new anger in the Michigan beer community. We saw it as a good opportunity for Tracy and he got the job. Thankfully, for our entertainment and education, the Detroit Metro Times published excerpts from Ryan’s deposition. Schulz: OK, So you knew Tracy prior to his employment at Founders? Michelle and Chris Gerard. Founders Attorney: Objection. Please also read our Privacy Notice and Terms of Use, which became effective December 20, 2019. In the event that you will not, I understand that a person unfamiliar with most of the facts in this case, and a person unfamiliar with the obligations that individuals are under when they give deposition testimony, might perceive Mr. Ryan’s statement as noteworthy. A white …. “I don’t know that I could look at myself everyday in the mirror knowing that not only did I not speak out for myself in my situation, but I didn’t speak out to help protect others past, present, and future.”. Someone’s skin color. In the leaked deposition, Evans' Attorney, Jack Schulz, asked Founders' Manager Dominic Ryan, "Are you aware Tracy is African American?" Michigan’s largest beer maker Founders Brewing Company is facing renewed scrutiny arising from an ongoing racial discrimination lawsuit. Second, this testimony is not Founders’ defense in this case as you allege. That is correct. Was he coached by Founders’ lawyer at all, to take that defense? The Founders Brewing fallout is a result of of a deeper systemic issue, in order to create a more inclusive workplace, you must actively become a more inclusive workplace. The on-going saga with Michigan’s Founders Brewing continued yesterday when Graci Harkema, who was hired in January to serve as the brewery’s Diversity and Inclusion Director, announced via social media that she had submitted her two weeks notice to resign from the company. As all deponents are instructed, Mr. Ryan was directed not to guess, assume or speculate in his deposition. A basic breakdown of COVID-19 the updated regulations for Michigan restaurants, bars, workers, and patrons during the pandemic, The Essential Guide to Christmas 2020 Dining in Southeast Michigan, Where to order dinner, find festive cocktails, and celebrate with friends (virtually), More Southeast Michigan Restaurants, Bars, and Breweries Receive Liquor License Suspensions, Tenacity Brewing in Flint and Oak Cafe in Wyandotte are among the five most recent license suspensions for violating COVID-19 orders, Ring in the New Year With These Detroit Restaurant Meals, Where to order drinks and food for the last godforsaken night of 2020, Former Founders Brewing Co. Evans, a black employee who worked at both the Detroit and Grand Rapids locations, claims in the suit that Founders inadequately addressed racist behavior among its workers, including multiple incidents of employees using racial slurs. You have to acknowledge it. Ryan’s remarks are understandably upsetting to many people, but the deposition and its aftermath are a small part of a much bigger-picture problem at Founders and the craft beer community at large. Evans called Ryan's comments "completely offensive" and was surprised by the exchange—at one point, he and Ryan had been friends. I can promise you that. © Copyright 2020 by WDET and Wayne State University. The lawsuit is scheduled to go to trial in October 2020. Last week, a deposition from a lawsuit alleging that Founders Brewing Co. fired an African-American employee because of his race leaked to the MetroTimes, which published it and reignited a controversy surrounding Michigan’s largest brewer. Offices (616) 776-2182. The restaurant’s general manager, Dominic Ryan, claims that he did not know Evans was black. Evans says in an interview that it took a long time to get up the courage to speak out in his workplace about things he felt were wrong and that his lawsuit is about helping empower others to do the same. At this point, the Founders manager Dominic Ryan, he’s still with the company? Ryan: So that’s what you’re referring to? When this lawsuit hit us, we didn’t know the potential of what could happen. In the exchange Ryan, who fired Evans, claims he didn’t know Evans was black. Thank you for reaching out to Founders before publishing your column. Sometimes things aren’t said right away.”, Over the weekend, Founders diversity director Graci Harkema publicly resigned after nine months on the job, saying the company was “more interested in the optics of my face than the impact of my voice.”. It involves a deposition being given by one of the accused, Founders’ Detroit general manager Dominic Ryan, to Jack Schulz, the attorney for plaintiff Tracy Evans, with a Founders attorney in attendance… Evans’ Attorney, Jack Schulz: When did you first meet Tracy Evans? Taproom (curbside pickup only): Sunday-Saturday 11am-7pm Evans’ Attorney, Jack Schulz: OK, are you aware Tracy is Black? The response denies that race or retaliation played into Evans’ termination as events and promotions manager at Founders Detroit’s taproom. “It’s very well-documented that the only reason that Tracy Evans lost his job was due to performance, it had nothing to do with his race.” - Founders owner Dave Engbers, “We wish that the apologies should have been communicated in a more timely manner,” says Engbers. Schulz: You don’t need any. Mr. Evans’ poor job performance will be apparent when Founders files its upcoming motion. Ryan: OK. The statement said Founders was confident it would come out on top in the lawsuit. I would ask that you reserve judgment or comment on this case until you actually see the evidence presented by the parties. You mentioned in an interview with the Detroit Free Press that you are very confident in the case. Brewery. Schulz: To your knowledge, was Kwame Kilpatrick Black? Unfortunately, after the personal development program that he was put on, he still didn’t hit the benchmarks that we had put in place and he had to be let go. I mean, like, I don’t know his DNA. A former employee, Tracy Evans, filed the complaint last fall alleging that the brewery failed to adequately address its toxic, racist work environment and ultimately fired him for raising concerns. We had mutual friends before working there, so …. When we made the decision as a company to open up a taproom in Detroit, we saw an opportunity, or I should say Tracy saw an opportunity, and applied for a position that I believe close to 300 people applied for. As soon as it was brought to our attention, [human resources] was brought in and those employees were spoken to, it was put on their permanent records. Schulz: Have you ever met Black people who aren’t from Africa? On Monday, Metro Times published a transcript from a deposition conducted by Evans’ attorney with Founders’ Detroit general manager Dominic Ryan. Ryan Patrick Hooper, CultureShift: Do you think that’s something people don’t deserve to know was said? Your connection to news, music, conversation. While it might be acceptable to speculate about this type of thing in casual conversation, Mr. Ryan was not having a casual conversation. Schulz: No? Founders manager Dominic Ryan: 2011, 2012. Harkema’s decision comes amid on-going litigation between Tracy Evans, and Founders Brewing around Evans’ … To learn more or opt-out, read our Cookie Policy. Schulz: Have you ever met a Black person born in America? This is the reason for his answer. Update, 9:59 a.m., October 23, 2019: This story has been updated with a statement on the boycott by EMBC from the Michigan Brewers Guild. The settlement was announced after a leaked court deposition between Evans’ lawyer, Jack Schulz, and Founders manager Dominic Ryan, sparked … Founders will soon be providing its full response to Mr. Evans’ claims when it files a motion to dismiss the case in its entirety. Third, through this testimony, Mr. Ryan was simply saying that he does not assume anything about individuals’ race or ethnicity unless they tell him that information. Ryan makes the same unfathomable claim with regards to Barack Obama, Michael Jordan, and Detroit mayor Kwame Kilpatrick. The controversy surrounding a racial discrimination lawsuit targeting Founders Brewery continues to grow. The full transcript is below: Evans’ Attorney, Jack Schulz: When did you first meet Tracy Evans? Unfortunately, during the time while he was down in Detroit, he was asked to do his duties, [they] weren’t being done to the satisfaction of the company. Do you know … You don’t know what it means for someone to be a white person or a Black person? That is not in my agenda,” he says. Dominic has 3 jobs listed on their profile. MLive cites a Detroit Metro Times report that says Founders general manager Dominic Ryan, who fired Evans, told Evans’ lawyer in a case disposition … We’ve never gone through anything like this in our 22-year history. That is correct. It is not. Read the statement here. “I have tried to reason with Founders and they continue to want to deny these things and look at it from their own perspective,” he says. The details of that firing have come under heavy scrutiny, however, since a transcript of an exchange between Founders’ Detroit general manager Dominic Ryan and Evan’s attorney Jack Schulz has come to light. Dave Engbers, Founders’ owner: I can’t imagine what was going through his head. The defense of Founders’ manager Dominic Ryan denying he knew the race of Tracy Evans. Edsenga says the legal team says plans to present evidence to the court soon in an effort to get the case dismissed. Update, Nov. 1, 2019: Founder’s has settled the racial discrimination case with plaintiff Tracy Evans, with neither party admitting fault. Do you know if Michael Jordan is Black? One of the employees is no longer with us. Attorneys for Founders maintain that Evans was fired not because of his race, but because of poor job performance. It’s a different color. And we’ve asked him to take some time off until we can figure out what’s best for him and for the company. In today’s day and age, you can’t say nothing. Due to the sensitive nature of the allegations, Engbers responses have been transcribed at length below. He worked there for about 4 years. A transcript of the exchange between Founders’ Detroit general manager Dominic Ryan and Evans’ attorney, Jack Schulz, shows Schulz shifting from shocked to incredulous and perhaps a bit angry as Ryan claims he had no idea Evans is Black. Attorneys for Founders maintain that Evans was fired not because of his race, but because of poor job performance. We talk about “purposeful progress,” we fully admit that none of us are perfect. Terms of Use | Online Privacy Policy, talk about his experiences at the brewery. We use cookies and other tracking technologies to improve your browsing experience on our site, show personalized content and targeted ads, analyze site traffic, and understand where our audiences come from. In the meantime, Evans says he’s focusing his efforts on developing an organization called It’s Not Right to help advocate for people who’ve been harassed or discriminated against in their workplace. The defense of Founders’ manager Dominic Ryan denying he knew the race of Tracy Evans. Ryan: No. “It’s time to start saying something,” he says. Ryan: I don’t know Tracy’s lineage, so I can’t speculate on whether he’s … if he’s from Africa or not. In a deposition regarding Evans' claims, Founders' general manager Dominic Ryan said he could not definitively say whether Evans is black. “How can you as a person, a company, a corporation, an individual — how can you understand and have sympathy or empathy for the things that minority people of color or women go through at your establishment, if you can’t even admit and can’t even acknowledge and know that these people are minorities?”. That’s when Ryan denied to confirm that his former employee is black. Founders evaluated and decided to terminate Mr. Evans based only on his job performance. It has nothing to do with his race. Founders Manager Dominic Ryan: What do you mean by that? Facing Backlash for Deposition in Racial Discrimination Case [Freep]• Statement Regarding Metro Times Article [Founders]• Former Founders Brewing Co. “He just displayed what is part of the larger picture and that is the blind eye towards racism. Following publication of the transcripts on Monday, Founders’ attorney Patrick M. Edsenga of Miller Johnson released a full copy of a statement provided to the Metro Times reporter Tom Perkins. Schulz: So you don’t know him? Founders Attorney: Objection. Yes. “We’re confident in the lawsuit. Founders Manager Dominic Ryan: 2011, 2012. From what I believe, I’m sure he was coached to answer every question that you absolutely know to be true. We wish that the apologies should have been communicated in a more timely manner. Evans also described “blatantly racist” behavior by management including allegations that the upstairs management printer at the Grand Rapids sites was labeled the “white guy printer” while the ground floor, general employee printer was labeled the “black guy printer.”. Was he a poor employee that entire time? And it’s so sensitive. Absolutely. We are working with our teams to see what they think. “Enough was enough,” he says. That’s never been our stance as a company. At least one Detroit brewer, Eastern Market Brewing Co., has announced plans to boycott this weekend’s Detroit Fall Beer Festival at Eastern Market where Founders is a participant. I can’t speculate on what Dominic was thinking. One of the employees still is. Dominic has 5 jobs listed on their profile. Schulz: And did you ever realize that Tracy’s skin [is] Black? At the time we had a zero tolerance policy. This morning, Founders co-owner Dave Engbers spoke with CultureShift’s Ryan Patrick Hooper to address the mounting crisis. Tracy Evans doesn’t work at Founders Brewing Co. 100 percent due to his performance. Schulz: Are you aware Tracy is African-American? In the deposition, general manager Dominic Ryan — who said he had known Evans for years, before he started working at Founders — was questioned by Evans’ attorney, Jack Schulz. You’re saying it’s well-documented that this isn’t about race, and that it’s about Tracy Evans poor performance as an employee. And if you have any hesitation, say ‘I don’t know.’. Schulz: So you don’t know if Barack Obama is Black? What about Michael Jordan? An owner of Founders Brewing Company gave the brewery’s first official interview to … Ryan: I’ve never met Barack Obama so I don’t …. But he says the company stands by its position on the lawsuit, claiming that Evans’ firing was due to poor performance, not racial discrimination. Yes, I know the difference in skin tone. See the complete profile on LinkedIn and discover Dominic’s connections and jobs at similar companies. View Dominic Ryan’s profile on LinkedIn, the world's largest professional community. Schulz: And you were able … Have you ever met a Black person who didn’t tell you they were Black? Evans says he felt it was his responsibility to say something to HR, but was discouraged when the company didn’t seem to take his concerns seriously and eventually pushed him out for questioning the culture. Schulz: Alright. Have you? 235 Grandville Ave. SW Grand Rapids, MI 49503. Schulz: Are you able to identify individuals by their skin tone? Out on top in the suit would cause been communicated in a racial lawsuit. Schulz: and did you ever met Black people who aren ’ t know..... To celebrate people of all different backgrounds trial in October 2020 so … formal complaint to human resources wish... 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